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	<title>Comments on: Welcome to the USA Zoo - Which Side of the Fence are We on? &#8220;Something there is that doesn&#8217;t love a wall&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/</link>
	<description>living the gospel</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102883</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102883</guid>
					<description>beautiful. you've given me a lot of good points to think about. I can always count on you. thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>beautiful. you&#8217;ve given me a lot of good points to think about. I can always count on you. thanks.
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		<title>by: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102787</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102787</guid>
					<description>No creativity at all.  What Frost called a 'frozen-ground-swell' I merely labeled 'entropy and decay'.  Perhaps not completely accurate on my part, but my main point still holds.  It is an effect of the fall that pulls the wall down.

What Frost rails against is a wall where one is not needed -- i.e., where there is no livestock.

   He is all pine and I am apple-orchard.   
   My apple trees will never get across   
   And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.

   Before I built a wall I'd ask to know   
   What I was walling in or walling out,   
   And to whom I was like to give offence. 

As near as I can read the poem, Frost completely misses the other reason for walls -- as ancient boundary markers, which are clearly supported by Scripture.  Or perhaps this is his point.  Maybe he is railing against private ownership of land?  I don't know enough to make a determination about this.

Frost's poem describes two neighbors cooperatively mending a wall in a time-honored annual ritual.  But the modern example is a case of a neighbor who zealously builds up the wall on one side of his property while all but actively tearing down the wall on the opposite side of his field.  Which would you rather be, a Guatemalan apprehended without papers in Chiapas or Oaxaca -- or a Mexican similarly apprehended in California or Oregon?

At the borders between modern nation-states, the neighborly cooperation Frost describes is rendered in the form of passports and visas.  This is universally recognized as passports are inspected at borders or airports -- whether those airports be named for Benito Juarez, Miguel Hidalgo or Kingsford Smith.  

I happen to believe that the levels of legal migration into the US are rediculously low (and I believe it can be objectively demonstrated that they are at historically low levels).  This is not a good thing.  But illegal immigration is the direct cause for these rediculously low levels of legal migration.  First, a poorly controlled border means that illegal migration, despite all of its dangers, appears more straightforward than the legal alternative.  Second, a large population of illegal immigrants eliminates the desire for higher and more reasonable limits on legal migration.

Years ago, the very night of my arrival in Mexico, I sat at a pastor's kitchen table when a group of young men from the flock came by to ask for prayer before the left to cross the Rio Bravo.  I took it all in stride.  They were apprehended and one of these young men became my close companion.  At the time of my departure a month later, he publicly thanked God that he had not made it across the border.

Then a few months later, I was telling the story to friend who challenged my thinking.  She had also challenged me to rethink the appropriateness of using a scheme I had for riding the BART under the bay but only paying the fare for riding between adjacent East Bay stations.

The lesson I learned was this:  the economic benefit and the possiblity of success do not by themselves determine the rightness of a course of action.

So I say, build the fence.  Build it soon.  It is the first step toward getting higher limits on legal migration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No creativity at all.  What Frost called a &#8216;frozen-ground-swell&#8217; I merely labeled &#8216;entropy and decay&#8217;.  Perhaps not completely accurate on my part, but my main point still holds.  It is an effect of the fall that pulls the wall down.</p>
<p>What Frost rails against is a wall where one is not needed &#8212; i.e., where there is no livestock.</p>
<p>   He is all pine and I am apple-orchard.<br />
   My apple trees will never get across<br />
   And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.</p>
<p>   Before I built a wall I&#8217;d ask to know<br />
   What I was walling in or walling out,<br />
   And to whom I was like to give offence. </p>
<p>As near as I can read the poem, Frost completely misses the other reason for walls &#8212; as ancient boundary markers, which are clearly supported by Scripture.  Or perhaps this is his point.  Maybe he is railing against private ownership of land?  I don&#8217;t know enough to make a determination about this.</p>
<p>Frost&#8217;s poem describes two neighbors cooperatively mending a wall in a time-honored annual ritual.  But the modern example is a case of a neighbor who zealously builds up the wall on one side of his property while all but actively tearing down the wall on the opposite side of his field.  Which would you rather be, a Guatemalan apprehended without papers in Chiapas or Oaxaca &#8212; or a Mexican similarly apprehended in California or Oregon?</p>
<p>At the borders between modern nation-states, the neighborly cooperation Frost describes is rendered in the form of passports and visas.  This is universally recognized as passports are inspected at borders or airports &#8212; whether those airports be named for Benito Juarez, Miguel Hidalgo or Kingsford Smith.  </p>
<p>I happen to believe that the levels of legal migration into the US are rediculously low (and I believe it can be objectively demonstrated that they are at historically low levels).  This is not a good thing.  But illegal immigration is the direct cause for these rediculously low levels of legal migration.  First, a poorly controlled border means that illegal migration, despite all of its dangers, appears more straightforward than the legal alternative.  Second, a large population of illegal immigrants eliminates the desire for higher and more reasonable limits on legal migration.</p>
<p>Years ago, the very night of my arrival in Mexico, I sat at a pastor&#8217;s kitchen table when a group of young men from the flock came by to ask for prayer before the left to cross the Rio Bravo.  I took it all in stride.  They were apprehended and one of these young men became my close companion.  At the time of my departure a month later, he publicly thanked God that he had not made it across the border.</p>
<p>Then a few months later, I was telling the story to friend who challenged my thinking.  She had also challenged me to rethink the appropriateness of using a scheme I had for riding the BART under the bay but only paying the fare for riding between adjacent East Bay stations.</p>
<p>The lesson I learned was this:  the economic benefit and the possiblity of success do not by themselves determine the rightness of a course of action.</p>
<p>So I say, build the fence.  Build it soon.  It is the first step toward getting higher limits on legal migration.
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102709</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102709</guid>
					<description>-creative, Charlie, to think of entropy and decay as the breakers of a wall. I am fairly certain that Frost was not thinking about these causes at the root of his desire to remove walls. Too many others share his desire to experience a neighborly peace and trust. I would label it "common grace desire."  Of course, the special grace cousin of Frost's desire, has been described by the Apostle Paul to the Church at Ephesus - the breaking down of the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile, the very work of Christ. To my knowledge, Frost did not know much of this special grace. Frost is honest as well as poetic in his line "something there is that doesn't love a wall." Common grace stumbles upon critical points and can be thus, quite enlightening. Special grace adds personhood to the "something," and pinpoints the precise moment of fulfillment in redemptive history making sense of what is merely a common grace gut feeling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-creative, Charlie, to think of entropy and decay as the breakers of a wall. I am fairly certain that Frost was not thinking about these causes at the root of his desire to remove walls. Too many others share his desire to experience a neighborly peace and trust. I would label it &#8220;common grace desire.&#8221;  Of course, the special grace cousin of Frost&#8217;s desire, has been described by the Apostle Paul to the Church at Ephesus - the breaking down of the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile, the very work of Christ. To my knowledge, Frost did not know much of this special grace. Frost is honest as well as poetic in his line &#8220;something there is that doesn&#8217;t love a wall.&#8221; Common grace stumbles upon critical points and can be thus, quite enlightening. Special grace adds personhood to the &#8220;something,&#8221; and pinpoints the precise moment of fulfillment in redemptive history making sense of what is merely a common grace gut feeling.
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		<title>by: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102622</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-102622</guid>
					<description>What is the 'something' that doesn't love a wall?  Entropy and decay.  Do these not both stem from the fall -- just as much as the hunters' vandalism Frost mentions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the &#8217;something&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t love a wall?  Entropy and decay.  Do these not both stem from the fall &#8212; just as much as the hunters&#8217; vandalism Frost mentions?
</p>
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		<title>by: Business Entrepreneur</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-100512</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-100512</guid>
					<description>Ive been reading your blog for quite a while. You have a very nice blog. Please post more often. Keep it up. - Business Entrepreneur</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ive been reading your blog for quite a while. You have a very nice blog. Please post more often. Keep it up. - Business Entrepreneur
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		<title>by: Tim Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-100252</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-100252</guid>
					<description>Nice post. Thank you for the info. Keep it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. Thank you for the info. Keep it up.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chad</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-100188</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/12/05/welcome-to-the-usa-zoo-which-side-of-the-fence-are-we-on-something-there-is-that-doesnt-love-a-wall/#comment-100188</guid>
					<description>Perhaps the border wall should be moved one mile back from the border. Then we can banish all our criminals to the area between the wall and the border. We save on prison bulding because we only need to build one side of the four walls and we get a border wall at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the border wall should be moved one mile back from the border. Then we can banish all our criminals to the area between the wall and the border. We save on prison bulding because we only need to build one side of the four walls and we get a border wall at the same time.
</p>
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