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	<title>Comments on: Deaconesses Study Committee Request Denied at PCA 36th General Assembly</title>
	<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/</link>
	<description>living the gospel</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Sarah McGuire</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-83722</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-83722</guid>
					<description>Yes, thank you for the information, I'll be reading it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, thank you for the information, I&#8217;ll be reading it!
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-82687</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-82687</guid>
					<description>thanks, Jennifer! We said and the list helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks, Jennifer! We said and the list helpful.
</p>
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		<title>by: jennifer kambas</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-81172</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-81172</guid>
					<description>Hi Nathan,

If I may be so bold as to step in whilst you're on vacation, I'd like to recommend a few resources to Sarah. These are from all perspectives. I ascribe to the theory that knowing what all sides think is important to a well informed decision of thought :). So, I recommend these books/sites that it's understood that you'll read things that are in agreement with the stated PCA presbyteries, plus those opposing such views. Here goes:

#1:
http://www.cbmw.org/images/onlinebooks/rbmw.pdf?virtuemart=ae9b6b1aa3d65a141597d055da154879

This is a PDF of "Recovering Bibical Manhood and Womanhood, an Evanglical Perspective."  Very good introductory reading from the Council on Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.

#2:
Two Views on Women in Ministry (Counterpoints: Exploring Theology)
by Linda L. Belleville (Contributor), Craig L. Blomberg (Contributor), Craig S. Keener (Contributor), Thomas R. Schreiner (Contributor), James R. Beck (Editor), Stanley N. Gundry (Series Editor)

A book that represents the egalitarian and the complementarian/hierarchical views of women and ministry.

#3:
Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry
by Stanley J. Grenz (Author), Denise Muir Kjesbo (Author)

Grenz is a Complementarian

#4:
Women in Ministry: Four Views
by Bonnidell Clouse (Author), Robert G. Clouse (Editor)

Robert Culver argues for what might be called the traditional view that women should not exercise authority over or teach men. Susan Foh suggests a modified view which would allow for women to teach but not to hold positions of authority. Walter Liefeld presents a case for plural ministry that questions ordination as a means of conferring authority. Alvera Mickelsen defends the full equality of men and women in the church.

There are also many online articles. If these are more accessible to you, post and I'll try and get those for you.

As for the slippery slope argument, I understand and acknowledge this line of reasoning. In many respects, it's a valid concern. Men and women are sinners and when given power many want more power. That's our nature. But, it's inherent in both the sexes, not just the female. 

Therefore, opening up discussion to the biblical application of the scriptures to allowing women deaconesses (which did exist in the New Testament church) seems to be a valid request. Even if this led to further desires/requests for more power in the form of desiring eldership (which doesn't seem biblical to this humble female), it doesn't mean it will lead to such a conclusion. Men are deacons and elders, but they don't typically want to become sole rulers of their congregations or pseudo-emperors...because there are checks and balances.

My main complaint in not addressing the issue is that you have many, many women within the PCA that are functioning as deaconesses, but without the necessary checks and balances. After a number of years in counter-cult minitry, I can assure you that such a condition is much more dangerous! Without the necessary recognition and boundaries of office, anyone, man or woman, will move beyond the invisible line.

Jennifer :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nathan,</p>
<p>If I may be so bold as to step in whilst you&#8217;re on vacation, I&#8217;d like to recommend a few resources to Sarah. These are from all perspectives. I ascribe to the theory that knowing what all sides think is important to a well informed decision of thought :). So, I recommend these books/sites that it&#8217;s understood that you&#8217;ll read things that are in agreement with the stated PCA presbyteries, plus those opposing such views. Here goes:</p>
<p>#1:<br />
<a href="http://www.cbmw.org/images/onlinebooks/rbmw.pdf?virtuemart=ae9b6b1aa3d65a141597d055da154879" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbmw.org/images/onlinebooks/rbmw.pdf?virtuemart=ae9b6b1aa3d65a141597d055da154879</a></p>
<p>This is a PDF of &#8220;Recovering Bibical Manhood and Womanhood, an Evanglical Perspective.&#8221;  Very good introductory reading from the Council on Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.</p>
<p>#2:<br />
Two Views on Women in Ministry (Counterpoints: Exploring Theology)<br />
by Linda L. Belleville (Contributor), Craig L. Blomberg (Contributor), Craig S. Keener (Contributor), Thomas R. Schreiner (Contributor), James R. Beck (Editor), Stanley N. Gundry (Series Editor)</p>
<p>A book that represents the egalitarian and the complementarian/hierarchical views of women and ministry.</p>
<p>#3:<br />
Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry<br />
by Stanley J. Grenz (Author), Denise Muir Kjesbo (Author)</p>
<p>Grenz is a Complementarian</p>
<p>#4:<br />
Women in Ministry: Four Views<br />
by Bonnidell Clouse (Author), Robert G. Clouse (Editor)</p>
<p>Robert Culver argues for what might be called the traditional view that women should not exercise authority over or teach men. Susan Foh suggests a modified view which would allow for women to teach but not to hold positions of authority. Walter Liefeld presents a case for plural ministry that questions ordination as a means of conferring authority. Alvera Mickelsen defends the full equality of men and women in the church.</p>
<p>There are also many online articles. If these are more accessible to you, post and I&#8217;ll try and get those for you.</p>
<p>As for the slippery slope argument, I understand and acknowledge this line of reasoning. In many respects, it&#8217;s a valid concern. Men and women are sinners and when given power many want more power. That&#8217;s our nature. But, it&#8217;s inherent in both the sexes, not just the female. </p>
<p>Therefore, opening up discussion to the biblical application of the scriptures to allowing women deaconesses (which did exist in the New Testament church) seems to be a valid request. Even if this led to further desires/requests for more power in the form of desiring eldership (which doesn&#8217;t seem biblical to this humble female), it doesn&#8217;t mean it will lead to such a conclusion. Men are deacons and elders, but they don&#8217;t typically want to become sole rulers of their congregations or pseudo-emperors&#8230;because there are checks and balances.</p>
<p>My main complaint in not addressing the issue is that you have many, many women within the PCA that are functioning as deaconesses, but without the necessary checks and balances. After a number of years in counter-cult minitry, I can assure you that such a condition is much more dangerous! Without the necessary recognition and boundaries of office, anyone, man or woman, will move beyond the invisible line.</p>
<p>Jennifer :)
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-80912</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-80912</guid>
					<description>agreed.  read anything you can find by Susan Foh, including "Women and the Word of God: A Response to Biblical Feminism."  If I think of more and when I return home I'll check my library for more. Go to Monergism.com to see what free literature is available on this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agreed.  read anything you can find by Susan Foh, including &#8220;Women and the Word of God: A Response to Biblical Feminism.&#8221;  If I think of more and when I return home I&#8217;ll check my library for more. Go to Monergism.com to see what free literature is available on this topic.
</p>
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		<title>by: Sarah McGuire</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-80861</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-80861</guid>
					<description>It seems that marginalizing a group of fellow believers would be more divisive than forming a group to look into the matter and prayerfully seeking guidance through scripture.  Nathan, can you reccomend any good books or articles concerning the role of women in the church?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that marginalizing a group of fellow believers would be more divisive than forming a group to look into the matter and prayerfully seeking guidance through scripture.  Nathan, can you reccomend any good books or articles concerning the role of women in the church?
</p>
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		<title>by: S Bicker</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-78206</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-78206</guid>
					<description>Thanks for your very sane perspective and for pointing to several important problems with refusing this study. One personal concern I have is that it doesn't seem very Presbyterian to mistrust the judgment of fellow presbyters proposing to search the scriptures on an issue. A humble trust that the Holy Spirit would guide our elders is at the heart of the ecclesiology to which we supposedly subscribe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your very sane perspective and for pointing to several important problems with refusing this study. One personal concern I have is that it doesn&#8217;t seem very Presbyterian to mistrust the judgment of fellow presbyters proposing to search the scriptures on an issue. A humble trust that the Holy Spirit would guide our elders is at the heart of the ecclesiology to which we supposedly subscribe.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jeff Meyers</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-77492</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/06/12/deaconesses-study-committee-request-denied-at-pca-36th-general-assembly/#comment-77492</guid>
					<description>Nathan: very good reporting and analysis on this.  Thank you.  It was great to see you again this year.  The Lord bless your ministry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan: very good reporting and analysis on this.  Thank you.  It was great to see you again this year.  The Lord bless your ministry!
</p>
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